The Federal Reserve

Share your viewpoint - politics and policy: the good, the bad, and the politicians.
Forum rules
The rules are simple: you may not agree, but you can agree to disagree. Vehement altercations will not be tolerated. If you don't know what that means, pull out the old Webster. If you are still struggling, this forum isn't for you.

The Federal Reserve

Postby pesetas » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:46 pm

Don't read this unless you want to get hot...REALLY HOT!

So after 45 years on this planet I decided to read a bit concerning the Federal Reserve to learn just what it is. Thanks to the net...I found many articles. The most disturbing is this one:

http://taxes.suite101.com/article.cfm/w ... al_reserve

Pesetas- Still spamming...
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"
- Sun Tzu

...1500+ and still spamming...
pesetas
Master
Master
 
Posts: 1755
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby Your Hero Jed » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:52 pm

Thanks Pes. There goes my dreams of early retirement(my wife is an accountant) now no one will need their taxes done. :icon43:
Fresh out of batteries, but we're still making noise.Image
User avatar
Your Hero Jed
Big Cheese
Big Cheese
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Florida

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby Majik » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:39 pm

Gee, I thought everyone knew we were paying through the nose even though there is no law saying we must pay income tax.
The IRS is legalized loansharking/strong arming ,for lack of a better term.
Our country should be going to a flat tax,in my opinion.
We are going to pay, we might as well try to get it as fair as possible.
Majik
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby Your Hero Jed » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:43 am

A teacher i had in high school is in jail right now for not paying because he said it is unlawful.
Fresh out of batteries, but we're still making noise.Image
User avatar
Your Hero Jed
Big Cheese
Big Cheese
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Florida

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby *FDB*Hakko » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:03 pm

FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG FAIRTAX.ORG !
lamaramal.wordpress.com
User avatar
*FDB*Hakko
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Gerogia

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby Majik » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:20 pm

What's sad is that people ARE in jail for not paying the unlawful tax that doesn't even exist.
Majik
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby StrongMAD » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:23 pm

That would fail miserably. A flat tax would hit the lower middle classes the hardest. All modern taxation is what's called 'progressive' - the more you earn the more you pay proportionally. The justification is that there is a baseline that you need to earn simply to stay alive - enough for food, shelter etc etc, and that should not be taxed. Retail taxes are about the most regressive taxes there are - they hurt people spending money, and poor people need to spend a disproportionately large amount of their income.

You want food, clothes? You buy it with all the money you have, in the USA and pay sales tax that cripples your spending power. You're rich and you want to buy a yacht? You buy it in Mexico and pay no sales tax. The 'fair' tax would ruin the middle class, hand over more spending power to the rich and destroy the US economy since it would make imports far more attractive - spending your money overseas would save you cash, making foreign luxuries even more desirable than US goods.

A healthy economy has currency circulating quickly and efficiently. It's not how much money you have that makes things happen, it's how fast it changes hands. Example: Suppose I have $10. I could sit on it, because I can't afford retail tax, or I could spend it on a book. Then the bookseller has $10 and I have a book. He could spend it on a DVD, then the DVD salesman has $10, the bookseller has a DVD and I have a book. Finally the DVD salesman could pay me $10 to clean his car. Net result: 1 clean car, 1 book, 1 DVD. Meanwhile had we all paid an excessive retail tax we would have probably not even bought the book in the first place.

A retail tax cripples an economy by slowing the rate of transfer of money. The winners in a 'fair tax' (the very term brings bile to my mouth) would be those who buy large products abroad. The losers would be those who work in the USA.
*FDB*Loki - Couldn't hit a planet at close range...
StrongMAD
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby *FDB*Hakko » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:22 pm

I knew strong would post this.

Strong,
StrongMAD wrote:That would fail miserably. A flat tax would hit the lower middle classes the hardest. ..... - they hurt people spending money, and poor people need to spend a disproportionately large amount of their income.

You want food, clothes? You buy it with all the money you have, in the USA and pay sales tax that cripples your spending power.



As for that read this:

The FairTax:

* Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
* Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
* Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
* Allows American products to compete fairly
* Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
* Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
* Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
* Abolishes the IRS

Also business wont be paying taxes (good incentive to move back to the US)... that means cost of goods go down (fair market.. competition.. etc..). You keep all of your payroll... etc..etc... Go read the damn website. then re-read it.

As for current tax code.. where is my damn incentive to make more money if I get taxed more?
lamaramal.wordpress.com
User avatar
*FDB*Hakko
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Gerogia

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby *FDB*Hakko » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:28 pm

more for you strong:

"The FairTax is regressive and shifts the tax burden onto lower and middle income people"

The truth: The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a FairTax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay the 23 percent retail sales tax on their retail purchases.

Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow and frustrates attempts at upward mobility through hard work and savings, thus harming low-income taxpayers the most.

In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.

How can the FairTax generate lower net tax rates for everyone and still pay for the same real government expenditures? The answer is two-fold. Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks. In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here. Secondly, not everyone's average net tax burden falls. For households whose major economic resource is accumulated wealth, the FairTax will deliver a net tax hike compared to the current system.

Consider, for example, your typical billionaire, of which America now has more than 400. These fortunate few are invested primarily in equities on which they pay taxes at a 15 percent rate, whether their income comes in the form of capital gains or dividends. In addition to having the income from their wealth taxed at a low rate, the principal of their wealth is completely untaxed either directly or indirectly. Assuming they and their heirs spend only the income earned on the wealth each year, the tax rate today is 15 percent. In contrast, under the FairTax, the effective tax rate is 23 percent. Hence, the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. In a nutshell, those who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities.
lamaramal.wordpress.com
User avatar
*FDB*Hakko
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Gerogia

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby StrongMAD » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:11 pm

Yes, I read their website Hakko. It's full of the brown stuff, I'm afraid. Under the 'fair tax' the effective tax rate on billionaires is zero - they'd spend their money abroad to avoid paying it. As for refunds in advance, I've not stopped laughing at that one yet!

Here's the thing: You make more money, you take more money home. That's your incentive. Let's say you make X+Y+Z dollars You pay taxes at a low rate on the first X dollars, a higher rate on the next Y and then a higher rate on the final Z. The more money you make, the more you take home. The whole "I'd pay more tax if I earned more" argument is a fallacy. At no point in your earning would making more money result in less take-home pay. Sure you'd get taxed at a higher rate on that final Z dollars (and I'm talking over 100,000 dollars here, not something many of us hit in our day-to-day).

Simple incentive no? Work more, take home more money. Seems to work pretty well for those who work long hours and take home a lot of money.

I stand by the point that a 'fair tax' would CRIPPLE your economy. It's removing money from your economy and home made goods and services and transferring it overseas. It would mean massive unemployment for US workers, a flood of imports and an exodus of people with money, taking their money with them.

It's not often I find myself agreeing with republicans, certainly not members of either Bush administration but see here for more:
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opin ... _0415.html

'The cure is worse than the disease'
http://mises.org/story/1814

According to factcheck the people who pay more? Those earning between 15,000 and 200,000. Sounds like the middle classes would be hit hardest to me:
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinni ... irtax.html

Edit: I guess what pisses me off more than anything is the name spinning "FairTax" - call it what it is - a national sales tax. To spin it the other way you could call it "TaxTheMiddleClass" or "DestroyAmericaTax".
*FDB*Loki - Couldn't hit a planet at close range...
StrongMAD
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby Majik » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:58 pm

Fair Tax, National Sales Tax, I don't care what you call it, it would be better than the current system.
I've read the posts, but,and maybe I'm old and dumb, or just plain dumb, but I don't understand how this would hurt Americans,and in fact not make a lot of us better off.
You could do away completely with the IRS.
No more chasing those that are "tax evaders".Boy how many could that free up to deal with real issues?
Majik
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby StrongMAD » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:17 pm

Because tax evasion would become buying non-american, basically, and so paying no tax. Hence you'd increase the price of all US goods 23% making foreign goods even more attractive and so all your money would flow out of the country.
*FDB*Loki - Couldn't hit a planet at close range...
StrongMAD
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby *FDB*Hakko » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:26 pm

Question for Strong? Do you like our current tax system?

As for fairtax, either you are for it or against it.
lamaramal.wordpress.com
User avatar
*FDB*Hakko
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Gerogia

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby StrongMAD » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:02 pm

No, I think it's far too lax on those who exploit the system and has too many loopholes. But FairTax? Forget it! It's a step backwards not forwards. So, if we're making it all or nothing, I'd vote against sales tax in general, and right now specifically anything that hurts the middle classes in favor of those earning over 200,000.
*FDB*Loki - Couldn't hit a planet at close range...
StrongMAD
White Collar
White Collar
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby Knightrider » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:01 am

Well all i got to say is that AJC article made me lol really really loud. Good old Freshwater vs saltwater. I love it. The Fair tax will work but the rate needs to be changed.
Too Close for Missiles, switching to guns
Negative Ghostrider, the patterns full

[url=http://ragealliance.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=323683]
Image[/url]
Knightrider
Pink Collar
Pink Collar
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 11:09 am

Re: The Federal Reserve

Postby pesetas » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:55 am

Great comments and opinions from everyone. Lately I've become more concerned and frankly appalled that I didn't know more about all this. Somehow I must have slept through all of this Federal Reserve Act, Sixteenth Amendment stuff in school. So I decided to followup a bit more by trying to decipher the Act itself. Written with such ambiguity it is practically impossible for my mind to wrap itself around this.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/fract.htm

IMO we need some MAJOR reform in this country!
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"
- Sun Tzu

...1500+ and still spamming...
pesetas
Master
Master
 
Posts: 1755
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: Charleston, SC


Return to Ardor of Opinion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron